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2017-07-28 09:53:55 来源:雷霆军事网 浏览: 评论: [ ]

  Chinese Spy Ship Was Snooping Off Alaska For the First Time During THAAD Test


  The People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) significant and continued expansion, both in terms of advanced ships and vital infrastructure, is one of the best indicators of China’s push to become an international military power.  But, as most eyes were focused on the departure of Chinese forces for their new base in Africa, the country made another important naval move, discreetly sailing one of its most advanced spy ships near the United States for the first time ever, just in time for an important American missile test.


  出处:龙腾网  原文地址:http://www.thedrive.com

  Some time on July 11, 2017, one of the PLAN’s six Type 815 North Star electronic intelligence-gathering vessels, China most advanced spy ships, arrived in international waters near the coast of Alaska, according to report by Epoch Times. That same day, the U.S. military’s Missile Defense Agency and numerous partners conducted the first ever test of the Terminal High Altitude Air Defense (THAAD) ballistic missile defense system against a mock intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM) from the Pacific Spaceport Complex Alaska in Kodiak.

  据大纪元时报的消息,2017年7月11日某时,6艘PLAN 815型北极星电子情报收集船中的一艘抵达了阿拉斯加海岸附近的国际水域,815型为中国最先进的间谍船。同天,美军导弹防御局首次展开末端高空(THAAD)弹道导弹防御对中程弹道导弹靶弹的测试,靶弹从阿拉斯加科迪亚岛的太平洋太空港发射升空。

  Michael Kucharek, a spokesperson for U.S. Northern Command and the U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), told The Epoch Times that this was the first time a Type 815 had entered either command’s “area of responsibility,” which includes the coastlines of both the contiguous United States and Alaska. It was also the first time since 2015, when a PLAN task force moved through the Bering Sea as then-U.S. President Barack Obama toured Alaska, that any PLAN ships have transited near an American shoreline. It was unclear what the Chinese ship was actually doing at the time and the spy ship remained in international waters, according to Kucharek.

  北方司令部及北美防空司令部发言人Michael Kucharek告诉大纪元时报,这是815型首次闯入两个司令部的“责任范围”,两司令部的“责任范围”包含美国和阿拉斯加的连续海岸。这也是自2015年奥巴马访问阿拉斯加期间PLAN特遣队穿越白令海峡以来,PLAN舰船经过美国海岸线附近。据Kucharek透露,尚不清楚中国船只当时在做什么,现在间谍船仍在国际水域逗留。

  However, it seems very likely that the spy ship was there specifically to watch the THAAD test. Though its unclear whether or not the North Star-class ships have the radars necessary to track missile flights, the vessel off Alaska surely vacuumed up a lot of information from electronic emissions, including signals from data links and other communication equipment connecting the various components of the THAAD battery, and from that battery to America's greater missile defense "ecosystem" as well. The X-band AN/TPY-2 radar, and its emissions radiated during an engagement was also likely of great interest to the Chinese.


  This could provide Chinese analysts with a more nuanced picture of how the particular system, as well as the broader U.S. military missile defense apparatus, works as a whole, exposing weaknesses well beyond any deficiencies with the interceptors themselves. In particular, the signals could expose vulnerabilities to jamming and other electronic warfare not just in THAAD, but elsewhere in the U.S. missile defense shield's broader networks. There could be evidence of cyber security gaps that Chinese specialists could exploit, as well.



  Of course, the North Star class, originally known as the Dong-Diao or “East Investigate” class, is hardly new. The PLAN commissioned the first ship, now called the Beijixing or “Polaris,” in 1999. It originally featured large parabolic antennas similar to Cold War-era spy ships such as the U.S. Navy’s USNS Vandenberg and the Soviet Navy’s Kosmonavt Yuri Gagarin, but at some point these gave way to radome-enclosed radars common to more modern designs.


  While the Beijixing remained the only member of its class for more than a decade, since 2010, the PLAN has added another five of the intelligence ships to its inventory. The first four were an improved Type 815G subvariant. The Kaiyangxing, which just entered service in January 2017, is yet another version known as the Type 815A. We don’t know what particular ship was near Alaska earlier in July 2017.


  Though historically tight-lipped about the Type 815s in general, the PLAN disclosed significant details about the class after commissioning Kaiyangxing. The Type 815A had a displacement of 6,000 tons and could reach a top speed of almost 23 miles per hour, Modern Navy, an official PLAN media outlet, announced, according to China Daily, an official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party.


  “The Kaiyangxing is capable of conducting all-weather, round-the-clock reconnaissance on multiple and different targets,” China Daily reported. “Until now, the PLA Navy has never made public so many details about its intelligence collection ships.”



  Though there is still a lot that remains unknown about the Kaiyangxing, or how it specifically differs from its sister ships, its basic size and shape is similar to the U.S. Navy’s now decommissioned USNS Observation Island, though it is much smaller than her replacement the USNS Howard O. Lorenzen. However, Lorenzen, obtusely classified as “missile range instrumentation ship,” is solely focused on spying on foreign ballistic tests and gathering information on US tests with its powerful electronically-scanned array-type radar rather than acting as a multi-role electronic intelligence collector. China has similar ships, known as the Yuan Wang class.



  As such, the Type 815-class as a whole seems to share more with Russia’s still active Balzam-class or Nowary's wedge-shaped Marjata. In 2016, the Norwegians replaced that vessel with a new spy ship, also named Marjata, which had a more traditional design.


  If the Type 815s have at all similar capabilities, the appearance of one off Alaska earlier in July 2017 is an important development, but not necessarily surprising. As already noted, the ships may be able to grab a wide variety of important electronic information associated with the test, which came four months after the U.S. Army began sending the ballistic missile defense system to South Korea. Though that deployment was long in the works, China had and continues to criticize those plans, arguing that the long-range AN/TPY-2 in particular threatens its nuclear deterrent capabilities by being able to provide persistent surveillance of Chinese skies.



  In theory, data from the Type 815’s trip near Alaska could end up informing new weapons designs or other measures to defeat THAAD in any potential conflict. There is always the potential risk that the details the Chinese grabbed could end up in the hands of North Korean intelligence agents, as well.


  Beyond the THAAD test, the arrival of one of the Type 815s off the American coast is significant in general. This type of world-wide sea-based electronic surveillance was a capability previously limited mainly to the American and Russian militaries. The Russian Navy has deployed its Balzam-class ships to snoop on large-scale military activities, including a notable appearance near Hawaii during the Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) naval exercises in 2016. In February 2017, one of the Kremlin's smaller Vishnya-class spy ship appeared off the east coast of the United States, reportedly the furthest north the type had ever ventured along the American coast. In 2014, the original Type 815 Beijixing also snooped on the annual RIMPAC exercise, even as other PLAN ships directly participated in the event.


  Even if the ships are less capable than their American or Russian counterparts, having six of them can only improve China’s ability to collect electronic intelligence on a number of potential opponents from the sea, including South Korea, Japan, and the United States. On July 2, 2017, the Tianlangxing, a Type 815G, transited the Tsugaru Strait separating Japan’s Honshu and Hokkaido islands. The ship was moving in the opposite direction from the Korean Peninsula, where a flurry of missile activity occurred two days later.


  Regardless, the move through the Japanese territorial waters prompted a stern response from that country’s authorities, though it was unclear if the Chinese ship was actively collecting electronic emissions at the time. China countered that it was allowed to pass through the area under international law.



  Regardless, if the Type 815’s arrival off the American coast ahead of the July 2017 THAAD test is any indication, the U.S. military may increasingly have to take into account that Chinese could be watching future launches from off shore.





  alcalde "China countered that it was allowed to pass through the area under international law."

  That's an ironic statement coming from them!

  “中国反击称按照国际法该地区允许通过” 这话从他们嘴里说出来还真是讽刺!!

  AK79 alcalde International law in it's many forms - be it maritime, humanitarian or Geneva Conventions - is heavy on courts but light on enforcement, since there is no police or military forces under the jurisdiction of said courts. So it's really about power. If a strong country chooses to enforce the judgements against a weak one, then international law works. If the judgements are against a strong country and it chooses to ignore them, and there are no other countries out there willing to go to war to force them to comply, then international legal decisions are worth less than the paper they are printed on. While you may be right that it's deeply ironic for the Chinese to appeal to the same laws they are in breach of, it is no different than the US relationship to the self-same body of laws. Just look at how we acquired our Pacific possessions... So given that international law is all about what judgements each nation has the power to ignore/enforce, the Chinese statement becomes less ironic with every modern warship they put into the water.

  回复alcalde 国际法有多种形式,海事的,人道主义或者日内瓦公约。国际法重条文轻执行,因为所谓的法院管辖权下没有军队和警察。所以国际法只是关于力量。如果一个强国选择对一个弱国执行判决,国际法成立。如果判决针对强国而强国选择无视,没有国家愿意开战来迫使他们遵守,国际法决定就是废纸一张原文www.881234567.cc。 你讽刺中国引用他们自己违犯的国际法可能是对的,但是美国也是这么干的。 看看我们是怎么得到太平洋领地的..... 所以考虑国际法就是看看每个国家是不是有能力执行或者无视判决,中国每下水一艘战舰,他们的声明就看起来越不那么讽刺。

  mrcrea AK79 Big difference between how the US acquired it's pacific islands and how china acquired it's undersea formations now "islands" is that the US signed a treaty with the controlling party transferring ownership of those islands to the US, and no one disputes our ownership of those positions in international forums. China on the other hand unilaterally confiscated these formations and failed to consult the other claimant nations, and then unilaterally militarized them when no threat to them existed...unless of course they are planning on attacking Taiwan in about 5-10 years.... Either way, any analogy to US protectorates/territories and Chinese "islands" is farcical.

  回复AK79 美国如何获得太平洋岛屿与中国获得他们的礁(现在的“岛屿”)有很大区别,美国同控制那些岛屿的阻止签署了转让协议,按照国际法我们对那些岛屿的主权没有争议。而中国呢,单方面侵占那些礁并没有同其他声索方商议,没有任何威胁却单方面军事化那些岛礁......除非他们计划5到10内攻击台湾....无论如何,美国和中国没有可比性

  AK79 mrcrea It was 119 years ago, so ya noone is disputing it NOW.. Back then, Spain sure was disputing it, but those objections were overcome after Dewey's squadron sunk their Pacific fleet in the Philippines and the Rough Riders did their thing in Cuba. The Philippine and Cuban populations objected, and waged a guerrilla war against us "liberating" them, but concentration camps and a bit of genocide took care of that problem (with the Philippines getting the worst of it). So ya, sure, the Chinese taking a bunch of uninhabited coral reefs which dont belong to them and building them up is waaay more wrong than sinking another country's fleet, invading their possessions while killing a couple hundred thousand locals, and then forcing the Spanish to sign a treaty handing the places over.... Dude, its all hard power politics, then and now. China is just smoother about it than we were back in the day.

  回复mrcrea 已经过了119年了,所以现在没有争议了..... 回到那时,西班牙肯定有争议,但那些反对意见在杜威舰队将他们的太平洋舰队击沉在菲律宾和狂野骑士们在古巴完成他们任务以后被克服了,入侵他们的领地,杀死数以十万计土着,迫使西班牙签署转让协议.... 兄弟,全是硬实力政治,无论过去还是现在。中国现在比我们当时干的要温和的多。

  TheLogicalMan Interesting question for the group. "There is always the potential risk that the details the Chinese grabbed could end up in the hands of North Korean intelligence agents, as well" Has there been any evidence that China has supported or helped NK with their nuclear weapons program ? I don't mean non intervention. I mean active support and participation? Im likely missing a lot, but as far as i'm aware most of their nuclear technology came out of Pakistan from the Kahn network (with some Israeli assistance) and their rocket tech mostly coming from Iran ? Any other info out there ?

  有个有趣的问题问大家 “同样也存在着中国收集的信息可能最终落入朝鲜情报机构手里的潜在危险。” 我很纳闷,据我所知朝鲜核技术主要通过Kahn网络从巴基斯坦获得的,他们导弹技术主要来自伊朗?有什么我不知道的吗?

  Bhess TheLogicalMan Is there any doubt? NK is so dependent on China that it's not possible that China hasn't helped NK in building their nuclear arsenal. AQ Khan traveled through China to get to NK and help them. If you look into it China's fingerprints are all over it.

  回复TheLogicalMan 有啥好奇怪的?朝鲜非常依靠中国,不可能中国没有帮助朝鲜建造核设施。AQ Khan是通过中国进入朝鲜帮助他们的。如果你仔细观察,中国人的影子到处都是。

  Superdave1 Bhess Why would China want a nuclear armed NK? I can't think of anything else that would put US troops on the Yalu river faster then nuclear warhead going off in Soul. NK is many things, but stupid is not one. There is enough info available public that anybody who has the willpower and resources could make a nuclear bomb. The only really hard part is getting the stuff to make the boooooooom big.

  回复 Bhess 为啥中国想要一个核朝鲜?我不认为美军推到鸭绿江比核弹头落在首尔更快。朝鲜很复杂,但不是蠢蛋。事情很简单,任何人只要有相应的意愿和资源就能知道原子弹。最难的部分是让原子弹的威力变大大大大大大大大大大.....

  Goatboy Superdave1 Because it costs North Korea's enemies more money, and forces more units to be deployed specifically to counter/intimidate North Korea. The Chinese are using the Hermit Kingdom as a rope-a-dope.

  回复 Superdave1 因为这能让朝鲜的敌人花更多的钱,迫使部署更多的军队来应对朝鲜。中国人就可以以逸待劳了。

  Superdave1 Goatboy No doubt China is using NK, but does it really cost us enough money to be worth it for China? What risks are involved for China and are they worth the reward? I say no they are not. What if a nuclear armed NK got the US to invest and produce a valid way of taking out ballistic missiles with a 95% accuracy, thats a big lose for them (and Russia). Don't forget China knows good and well what a nut job the boy king is. There is a even chance if it came to nuts under the hammer those NK missiles are just as likely to hit Beijing as they are Tokyo, one bad day for fat boy Kim and China looses all its worked for.

  回复Goatboy 毫无疑问,中国在利用朝鲜,但是让美国花更多钱对中国来说值得吗?值得中国冒现在的危险吗?我觉得肯定不值。如果一个有核朝鲜得到了美国的投资和95%可能性撤出弹道导弹的保证,那将是中国(俄罗斯)巨大损失。别忘了中国非常了解正恩同志有多疯狂。哪怕有那么一丝可能性,朝鲜的导弹像对日本那样攻击了北京,那里土肥圆和中国将失去他们的一切。

  Machiavelli Superdave1 I would point out too, that the cost is way more than monetary. Look at all the time and effort and manpower and heartburn and allocation of military assets ect, that NK ties up just by being nutty. They have sunk a boat and shelled an island and look at the response. They are def winning that aspect of the game by causing us and our allies to anticipate his next whatever.

  回复Superdave1 我想指出另外一点,花费远不止货币那么简单。看看朝鲜疯狂累积的时间,努力,人力,嫉妒,军事资产分配等等。他们击沉过舰船,炮击过岛屿,看看反应8+8+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+c+c。他们已经赢了,无论他玩什么游戏,我们和我们盟友都得参与。

  Superdave1 Machiavelli We have the assets and they would have been used even with out a nutty ass NK. I feel China is smarter then that. Lets just say NK managed to sell a functioning nuke to a terrorist group. Lets say we (the US or UN) found undeniable proof at least some of the tech came from China. The risk involved in that should be enough to keep China from doing it.

  回复Machiavelli 我们用装备来对付疯子朝鲜。我觉得中国聪明多了。让我们只是说朝鲜要卖核武器给恐怖组织,让我们说有确凿证据表明至少某些技术来自中国。其中的风险足够中国阻止朝鲜的了。

  Machiavelli Superdave1 Agreed, but I refer you to my earlier 'blue suit' comment. We know well that a Russian BUK missile shot down that airliner possibly with Russians at the controls but they just said, "no, it was Ukrainian jets." and what came of that? We pretty much had the smoking gun and it meant exactly shit.

  回复Superdave1 同意,不过建议你读下我之前的“蓝衣”评论。我们都知道击中了那架飞机的BUK导弹可能就是俄罗斯人控制的,但他们只是说,“不是,是乌克兰飞机发射的导弹。”然后呢?我们有烟雾弹,但就是狗屎。

  Superdave1 Machiavelli Very valid point.

  回复Machiavelli 说的好

  Machiavelli Superdave1 Good talkin' but I gotta get some work done. Good luck to us all!

  回复Superdave1 聊天愉快,我有活要干。祝我们好运

  Machiavelli Superdave1 What Goatboy said, plus China is betting that nobody will strike NK to stop them/him, which means they will develop the weapons they seek. China figures it's better to be on the good side of an insane fucker with nukes, than on the bad side of an insane fucker with nukes. NK will achieve nuclear parity and then the world will be forced to negotiate with the madman. At that point, this situation will rapidly transit from bad to worse. If Un is allowed to achieve viable nuke ICBM's, we will be forced to recognize him and give him what he most desires, a seat at the grown-ups table. To make matters even worse, the only real chance for stopping the madness would have to be from within. Not holding my breath. To the original question, it seems very unlikely that NK could have achieved what they have without at least tacit Chinese approval if not outright support. I think that the desire for an end to US hegemony is far stronger in China than anywhere else. Russia has known a semblance of parity with the US and it bankrupted them, China has more money and resources than the Soviets did.

  回复Superdave1 Goatboy说的,要加上中国在赌没有人会袭击朝鲜来阻止他们/他,意味着他们最终会得到他们想要的。中国发现站在有核弹的疯子好的一面要比坏的一面强。朝鲜会实现核均势,世界将会跟这个疯子谈判。这种情况下,形势可能会变得更糟糕,如果联合国允许可行的核洲际弹道导弹,我们将被迫与他谈判,满足他的要求——成人桌子上的一个位置。更糟的是,唯一能够阻止疯狂的机会在朝鲜内部。回到最初的问题,如果没有中国的支持或者默许,朝鲜是没有可能完成他们的目标的。我认为中国方面最大的愿望就是美国霸权的终结,而非朝鲜问题。俄罗斯貌似与美国等同,他们破产了,中国拥有超过苏联的金钱和资源。

  Superdave1 Machiavelli It just seems like it would have been much easier for China to have leveraged pressure to stop NK nuke dreams then promote them. Starting a conventional war between north and south would achieve the same goal with less risk and thats something China has in their kitbag. I see no reason NK could not have gone out on their own and gotten this tech. Look what SK has done in just a few short years with technology. People are people, the US produced several nukes long before any real computer, I am not arrogant enough to think NK does not have the mind power to do the same all by themselves. Being hermits makes them crazy but not dumb. Obviously no citations for this, its just my thinking on it and Im often wrong

  回复Machiavelli 看起来中国利用压力阻止朝鲜核项目要比促进它容易的多,引发南北之间的常规战争能够实现同样的目标,而且危险更小,这是中国方面谋划的。 我找不出任何理由朝鲜不能靠他们自己得到这项技术。看看韩国得到技术以后做了什么。人民是人民,美国在真正的计算机发明之前就生产了几颗核弹,我不会自大到以为朝鲜靠他们自己没有足够的智力来完成我们所做过的事雷 霆 军 事 网。被孤立让他们疯狂,不会让他们变傻。当然这些没有什么实际依据,这只是我的想法,而且我经常出错

  hunter32031 I wonder if we put out a lot of false signals in such an instance. Muddy the waters so to speak.


  Orb Since when I first read the news about the Chinese with a front row seat on THAAD test I wanted to ask the experts here if it is normal that what should have been a "secret" test (at least regarding date, time and location) was so well anticipated by the Chinese. US just said that it was going to do the test before the end of july, but just a couple days after the announcement, test results where out. How did China get vessels in position in time ? Even some kind of agreement to unofficially let them observe is not completely to rule out. By the way, have been without tech for a few days and came back with a ton of new articles, great work !! A lot of catchup to do :)


  autodidact Orb Who knows? Perhaps the U.S. Gov't lets them know earlier than the public? Perhaps one of their spies learned?

  回复Orb 谁知道呢?也许美国政府在公布之前提前通知了他们。 也许是他们的间谍得到的消息?

  Orb autodidact Thought of some kind of unofficial agreement came immediately to mind, after all, with tensions regarding north korea, it might make some sense.

  回复autodidact 考虑私下里部分同意他们来的话,由于朝鲜的紧张关系,也许有其他的意义。

  Guestautodidact I'd guess the spy route is more likely. We continue to school and employ Chinese citizens while China openly states it expects its citizens to debrief their intel units regularly.


  DCV Orb I'd say China has far better intel than the general public and the media. I mean, look at all the technology they've acquired by spying. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew the consistency of the Joint Chiefs' No.2s.

  回复Orb 中国有比大众和媒体好的多的情报。 不信,看一下中国通过间谍得到的技术吧。如果他们知道一直清楚谁会成为(参谋长)联席会议的副主席,我也不奇怪。

  autodidact DCV I believe that Chinese espionage in the United States is wide and pervasive. I think they have networks of agents inside U.S. military contractors and subcontractors which they use for technical espionage. However, I am not sure how they would find out.

  回复DCV 我相信中国人在美国的间谍活动是广泛而普遍的。我认为美国军方的承包商和次级承包商里有他们的特工网络,用以窃取技术情报。 然而,我不知道他们怎么发现的。

  DCV autodidact Monitoring the communications, in the ways that only a well equipped "entity" can do. Breaking the encryption, following certain persons of interest, etc. Basically, puting together a big puzzle. Every side does that, even the allies (see French and their "customs inspections" of the F-35).






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